I'm in the process of developing a class on ATC for presentation at the CPPPs.
We are planning to have controllers present at this class who will be available to answer any questions the participants might have. We would like to have some questions now in order to tailor the entire presentation towards issues about which there is confusion or which pilots want more information.
This includes issues related to communication, clearances, understanding, emergencies etc. Anything you want to know about ATC is fair game.
So what I would like from COPA members are questions about ATC that you would like answered. What things do you want discussed and what information would you like to have to enhance your interaction with ATC?
Note that I don't want answers to these questions in this thread. Just questions and things you would like to have discussed in the CPPP environment.
Either post here or contact me directly at [email protected].
Jerry If I were to ask. It would be how much does it bother them if our radio work is not per Book, I personally try to not deviate from it, but I do sometimes by mistake. Don
Looking forward to the Nashua, NH CPPP in August. I'd like to volunteer my services for anything related to Boston Class B "Skyways", or general New England ATC questions. I can help coordinate with the TRACON to get a representative to cover all the bases. Hopefully we can get a good turnout this year!
Thanks for getting this together, Jerry.
I have a question about what weather info is available to control towers but not to ARTCC. The NTSB Final Report in the Clearwater, FL fatal mentioned that the pilot might have been warned about the microburst/gust front activity had he been talking to a control tower. But, because he was landing at an uncontrolled field and ATC did not have access to this information, no warning was given:
"A review of the Integrated Terminal Weather System (ITWS) Situation Display applicable to the Tampa Bay, Florida, area for the time surrounding the accident indicated that a downburst/microburst/gust front was moving eastward across the CLW and PIE areas around the accident time. ITWS information is not available to controllers in ARTCCs but is available to airports with air traffic control towers. CLW did not have an air traffic control tower."
Keep 'em coming.
All excellent questions that we will ensure are covered in the eventual presentation.
William Dillon William Dillon wrote the following post at 30 Nov 2018 21:22: Along with the ARTCC and local controller question, one big open question I have is when I’m departing uncontrolled fields away from home (where I know who to call and what the drill is) what’s the best way to know who to call? My typical method is to look in the A/FD and if nothing is there, try the last center I had during arrival, and if I don’t have that look for the nearest frequency box in the IFR Low sectional. Virtually always, I’m given another frequency, and I feel like I’m being annoying. Is there a better way?via iCopa
I always call WX-Brief and ask the best way to pick up a clearance on the ground and they've always had the info (phone #, frequency, etc.). Hasn't failed yet.
Separately, if its not busy, I'll ask the last controller on the way in what frequency I should try on the way out.
Often times centers will not provide phone numbers in the east. Approach controllers do so commonly.
1. How are IFR routes determined? Is it completely by computer, or are there human beings involved?
2. What is the best way to deal with an IFR clearance you don't like? Like one that takes you far over the water?
Guys - please respect Jerry's request in the original post to only post questions to ask his ATC group. Please do not answer the posted questions here.
Jerrold SecklerNote that I don't want answers to these questions in this thread. Just questions and things you would like to have discussed in the CPPP environment.
Michael Wise1. How are IFR routes determined? Is it completely by computer, or are there human beings involved?
I had the same question. Why are so many routes zig zagging all over the place? It's easy to load with the Perspective but I almost never fly all the waypoints. They usually give me RV to 1 fix and then Direct.
I also get frustrated when ATC does not respond to my call. How do I know if he's on another call or frequency? Sometimes in very busy airspace the controller is overwhelmed and it's almost impossible to get a call in without "Stepping" on another aircraft transmitting.
There is a very good Facebook Group that deals with Pilot/ATC issues:
You might want to look at it for some ideas.
Jerry, thus is a great idea. In addition to Michael’s question about how routes are derermined, I’d like to know more about coordination and communication between different Centers and Sectors. Three times in the last month I’ve filed the recommended route between Knoxville and White Plains, NY. Each time I was cleared as filed and each time at the same point in flight ATC gave me a new routing, I think to keep me outside of the outer band of the DC SFRA. Also, about once every 10 flights in the Northeast a controller will be surprised by my routing and ask me questions about my clearance as if the previous controller didn’t hand me off properly or the computer is confused.
I'd like to know more about coordination between controllers and handoffs. For the third time in a month, all on IFR flight plans, I've been asked to do a 360 degree turn to rejoin the victor airway I was flying because busy NY controllers would not take the handoff from Maguire (x2) and Wilkes Barre (x1). I understand the airspace is busy but 360s in place on an IFR flight plan? Handoffs shouldn't be that hard, right?
One additional question: What happens to the remarks we put in our IFR flight plans? (For example: will fly the ODP; no overwater; no SID; etc.)?
Jerry: this sounds like a great CPPP course. I look forward to attending!
Thanks all for your questions and please don’t be shy in asking. You won’t embarrass yourself by posting because I scratch my head sometimes with ATC...”you want me do do what?”
Jerry and I had a conference call yesterday with one of the executives of the National Association of Air Traffic Controllers. They are very excited to become a part of of our CPPP and miniCPPP Programs and want to tailor their presentation to us.
They they say “ Cirrus November ....” a lot while on duty so they are looking forward to our inquiries.
The Cirrus Owners & Pilots Association (aka, “COPA”) is a 501(c)7 non-profit corporation dedicated to serving its members.
COPA® is not in any way affiliated with Cirrus Aircraft, the manufacturer.Cirrus is a registered trademark of Cirrus Aircraft